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    M-S stereo recording. Shotgun and figure-8???.


    Hi all.
    I have read about M-S stereo recording and it seems very interesting. Some people says that a cardioid microphone as Mid microphone will give 'better' results.
    What about of using a shotgun as Mid mic??????
    I am wondering what can you get of using a Røde NTG-2 shotgun as mid mic and Røde NT2-A figure-8 as side mic.
    It can be a bit cumbersome using a long shotgun together with a bulky mic.
    Any experience? Any advice?
    I already got a Røde NTG-2. Would be a good purchase to get a Røde NT2-A?

    Thank you all. Long life to 'the free sound project'!!

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    HI,

    the MS setup I use regularly (or must I say I used to use?) is a shotgun mic and a figure-8. Listen to any of my field uploads during the last year if you want to check the result

    As for the Rode NT2A acting as the side mic, my opinion is... too bulky for field use. Furthermore, these two Rode must be at a right angle (check their polar patterns) and ...how would you protect this huge monster thing from wind? Your mic combination seems largely unfeasible for field use, although interesting for studio.

    You probably know this, MS is the most restrictive recording option (hardware-wise). There are very few fig-8 capsules and are expensive (AKG CK94, Senn MKH30, MKH80, Schoeps MK8...). My advice is... two omnis with a barrier, way to go.

    D

    Ps, I might be willing to sell my MS setup in the next months, drop me a line if you are interested

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    dobroide

    the MS setup I use regularly (or must I say I used to use?) is a shotgun mic and a figure-8. Listen to any of my field uploads during the last year if you want to check the result....
    Ps, I might be willing to sell my MS setup in the next months, drop me a line if you are interested

    I have heard your audio files. They sound good imo.
    Which microphones do you use? I would like to purchase some mics for M-S recording, perhaps it would be a good idea to buy a second-hand gear.

    btw, I have checked the size of Røde NT2-A and it is huge!!! Definitively it will be a pain in the ass use that mic in the field.

    Regards from Copenhagen.

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    Hey dobo: What method have you found works to get the Mid mic close to the two omnis if you're using a baffle in between? I'm thinking about this primarily from the dimensions of my Jenklin disc, which would never allow very close proximity of the MID mic to the SIDEs. It's my experience that having all three mics as physically close as possible helps to keep phase issues due to time differentials down

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    Thanks Microscopia,
    That is a very nice setup. It is a bit cumbersome for my taste, but nice wink
    I've got the Røde NTG-2 and NT2-A for MS recording. I connected both mics using Apogee Duet into my Macbook. Awesome stereo imaging. It is true that the shotgun focus the sound, perfect for bird and insect recordings in stereo mode. For ambient reconding, I prefer to use a cardioid or omni as mid mic. For that purpose I use Røde NT55.
    I did some recordings in a cave and I was scared of the stereo imaging (in a good way).
    I won't recommend to use a laptop for field recordings, in some silent places you can listen the laptop's fan.
    I'm pushing the trigger for Edirol R-44. Let see what I can get of that.
    Best Regards.

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    I'm still a little leery of the setups as shown and described. Not saying it can't lead to wonderful results, but even such a distance shown between the capsule of the shotgun and the Fig-8 there can easily be time-delay issues which tend to deteriorate the accuracy of MS.

    I have always practiced to get the capsules as physically close as possible without touching, and also to make sure that the Mid mic pattern fits exactly perpendicular and centred on the off-axis of the Fig-8.(Dead-centre and 90-deg of the two lobes)
    Doing blumlein recordings (2 crossed Figure-8s) requires extreme precision along these lines or it is not nearly as effective as it can be. This is part of the reason that Ambisonic/Soundfield or Tetrahedral microphones for surround-sound use have such precise angles. They're ability to remain in phase (Both in time and intensity) require this precision or the effect doesn't work.

    Just as an example of my thinking: If I had a rig such as the one shown, I would probably hang the Figure-8 over top of the shotgun so that I could get the two capsules to be closer together.

    Anyway, not dissing any particular technique, just being anal.

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    The answer is no, I wouldn't hear any difference. You're absolutely correct that time and angular differences happen continuously within our ear/head/brain/environment relationship.

    When in the studio, I hardly even worry about potential phase issues, because individual mic isolation/clarity are more practical concerns and phase isn't something that can be eliminated theoretically or physically. I promise that I am not a total theory/math freak, I typically only care about the things I have realistic control over.

    I do however have a strong personal preference for not introducing limitations at the front-end of an historical or specifically defined recording process. Mid-Side is one thing, 3 mono microphones is simply a different technique.

    Anyway, I do apologize if I sounded too critical; I respect and enjoy ALL recording scenarios. I was perhaps adhering to closely to the title of this particular thread.

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    shotgun ? for amtospehere is not really the way to go if yu ask me, they tend to colour to much of axis. try a kidny or even omni.

    i use schoeps ccm 5 and a ccm 8 for figure of 8.

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    My home made MS set-up made with existing gear.

    I have experiment with Mid-side recording for while. I am an amateur, so it took a while to have good results.
    I make static field recordings, so I do not have to walk around with the mics.
    The usual Mid-side mics are to expensive for me.
    My goal was to make field recordings with deep penetration and wide stereo without hearing my handling-noise when I am sitting behind the mike.

    I did the following;
    I took a Rode NT4 xy microphone. It has two XLR's. One for left one for the right channel.
    Made an extra cable where I can put in the XLR's as input and with one XLR as output to my recorder. In the output connector I connected the left and right anti parallel. That means the Hot and cold wire of the right channel is switched. So Hot left and Cold right are connected and Hot Right and Cold Left are connected. That cable become the right channel of the recorder and become the site channel. I power it with 48V phantom power and it works, but you can use a battery as well.
    The result of this setting is that the left and right channel creates a figure eight diagram with less signal from behind. This because the mic is a XY mic.

    I use a Rode NT1 shot-gun as mid microphone in the right channel of the recorder.

    If you have just a normal stereo recorder you can work this way;

    Make a test recording (shotgun in left, the modified NT4 XY mic(s) in right channel)
    Record on normal level. I know it does not sound well when you monitor but here is the wonder;

    Now you upload the recording into Audacity.
    Split the stereo channels
    make the left channel a MONO signal.
    copy the right channel and invert the copy.
    Make the original right channel a LEFT channel
    Make the inverted right channel a RIGHT channel

    and here is the wonder;
    fade-out the right and left channel to ZERO and play the recording.
    Now you here the shotgun signal as MONO
    when you fade in the left and right channel equally the wide stereo MID-SIDE appears.

    Have fun experimenting yourself..

    Here is a recording I have made;
    http://freesound.org/people/klankbeeld/sounds/320162/

    To hear, you first have to listen

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